The Pivot Playbook-rescuing businesses, redesigning midlife

Mascots, Math, and Meaning: Barry Gogel’s Pivot Story

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Barry Gogel, managing member of the Baltimore/Towson office of a Maryland-based business law firm with major-case reach — and a practice built on complex business litigation, government contracts, and high-stakes disputes that demand both strategy and integrity.
Barry shares the unexpected path from math major and school teacher to commercial litigator, and the pivotal moment that brought him back to education: coaching and building a negotiations and ADR pipeline at the University of Maryland Law School. Along the way, he reflects on service as “medicine,” why clients often call counsel too late, and what heart-centered leadership looks like in a profession built on conflict.
Also: Orioles history, Camden Yards memories, a legendary “last person on the field” story — and the surprising truth that Barry once had the most fun you can have fully dressed… as a professional mascot.

Be Brave — Reinvention, Leadership & Authenticity with Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn

Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of Columbia and recipient of the 2025 American Bar Association Business Bankruptcy Committee’s Kathryn R. Heidt Memorial Award, joins Salene to talk about bravery, authenticity, public service, and the pivots that shape a life in law.   She is Board-Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy by the American Board of Certification.
From being bullied in a tiny Oregon town to becoming one of the most recognizable voices in bankruptcy education (including the wildly popular “Bad Boys of Bankruptcy” podcast), Judge Gunn shares candidly about her journey: leaving BigLaw, taking a pay cut for purpose, balancing motherhood with the bench, and finding her voice as a leader.
A powerful, warm, and deeply human conversation about resilience, reinvention, and why the scariest decisions are sometimes the truest.
✅ NOTES 
Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of Columbia, marathon runner, mother of two, scholar, podcast creator, and the 2025 recipient of the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee’s Kathryn R. Heidt Memorial Award.
Judge Gunn is known for her intellect, her service, and her creativity — including launching the ABA’s hit series “The Bad Boys of Bankruptcy,” now the most-listened-to podcast in the entire Business Law Section.
But behind the accolades is a story of courage, reinvention, and authenticity.
⭐ In this episode, we cover:
1. Her path to the bench—from a tiny Oregon town to Washington, D.C.
Growing up as the academically gifted “outsider”
Being bullied and persevering
Discovering bankruptcy law through Professor Ingrid Hillinger
Working BigLaw → regional firm → Virginia AG’s office → federal judge
2. The pivotal moment that changed everything
Leaving private practice, taking a massive pay cut, and betting on purpose over prestige — a scary leap that ultimately led to national recognition and her judgeship.
3. Running marathons, building playlists, and her global Starbucks mug wall
How running keeps her sane, what she listens to, and why Berlin and Sydney marathons mark chapters in her personal story.
4. Inside the “Bad Boys of Bankruptcy” podcast
How it started
The wildest stories (Seattle jewel-smuggling fugitives, Dunkin’ Donuts Ponzi schemes, hidden jewelry walls!)
How storytelling makes bankruptcy accessible and engaging
5. What it means to be a first-generation lawyer and a woman on the bench
Authenticity vs. “playing the role”
The “mom finger” for mansplainers
Being the only woman in the courtroom
Raising confident kids while doing demanding work
6. Judge Gunn’s advice for:
Distressed business owners: “Do NOT wait until it’s an 8, 9, or 10 crisis. Come in at a 4 or 5—before it’s too late.”
Creditors: “Open your mail. Participate. The squeaky wheel often gets the grease.”
7. The Pivot Playbook Four Pivots
Pivot she’s most proud of: Leaving private practice + applying for the bench
Practice that keeps her grounded: Being a mom
Principle that guides her: Treat people the way you want to be treated
Person who changed her trajectory: Her mentor, Roy Terry — and her mother
🔥 MEMORABLE QUOTES 
“Sometimes the best decision is the scariest decision. Be brave.”
“I wasn’t successful until I stopped trying to be who I thought a lawyer should be — and just became myself.”
“If they walked in six months earlier, we could have saved it.”
“The bankruptcy code protects the people who show up.”
“Treat others the way you want to be treated — it’s not complicated.”
“This is probably my last job ever, and I love it.”
✅ CALLS TO ACTION
Learn more about the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/about/committees/business-bankruptcy/subcommittees/
Listen to Bad Boys of Bankruptcy podcast: 
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/to-the-extent-that/id1498999428?i=1000737283314
Connect with Judge Gunn’s work through NCBJ, ABC, ABI, and the Federal Bar Association
Learn more about becoming Board-Certified in bankruptcy:  https://abcworld.org
 

The Farm “Debt Doctor” of Kansas: Helping Businesses and Families Rebuild with Attorney David Prell Eron

Episode Description (for Spotify / Apple Podcasts)
In this heartfelt Halloween episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer sits down with David Prelle Eron, founder of Prelle Eron & Bailey, P.A. in Wichita, Kansas.
A business bankruptcy attorney, former U.S. Trustee, and board-certified specialist, David shares his remarkable journey from Los Angeles litigator to Kansas farm bankruptcy expert — and how faith, humility, and perspective guide every pivot.
They discuss the power of gratitude, the beauty of second chances, and why “it’s only money” might be the most freeing mantra of all.
🧾 Show Notes
Guest: David Prelle EronFirm: ç (Wichita, KS) Prelle Eron and Bailey, P.A. https://www.eronlaw.net/team-members/david-prelle-eron/  Role: Founder and Managing Partner — Business Bankruptcy, Farm Reorganization (Chapter 12), Chapter 11, and Commercial LitigationJurisdictions: Kansas (Active), California (Inactive)Certification: Board Certified, Business Bankruptcy — American Board of Certification (ABC)Education: University of Iowa College of Law (J.D., 2002)
🔹 Highlights
Founding his Kansas law firm after leaving the U.S. Trustee’s Office — and the courage to create a practice that reflects his values
How Chapter 12 “farm bankruptcies” became his specialty — representing over 50% of all Chapter 12 debtors in Kansas
Why bankruptcy is the most compassionate area of law, helping people rebuild dignity and stability
His mentor’s timeless advice: “Debtors are debtors for a reason.”
Serving on the ABC Board of Directors and launching the Membership Committee to connect certified specialists nationwide
Why running a law firm means mastering both law and business — “Running a firm is not practicing law.”
His personal pivots: from government to entrepreneurship, from lawyer to leader, and from parent to grandparent
💡 Key Takeaways
Perspective is everything. “99 times out of 100, whatever you’re dealing with isn’t the end of the universe.”
Bankruptcy is grace in action. It’s a safety net that lets families and businesses begin again.
Leadership means service. Whether through board work or community faith projects, success is about contribution.
Running a business is its own profession. Master your craft — but also learn to manage, lead, and plan.
Faith and gratitude fuel longevity. Ground yourself in purpose beyond profits.
💬 Notable Quotes
“It’s only money. You can rebuild that. What matters is your health, your faith, and your family.”“Debtors are debtors for a reason — and we’re here to help them anyway.”“Running a law firm isn’t the same as practicing law — it’s a second full-time job.”“I am only here for a short time. Eternity is a very long time.”“Faith, family, and perspective — that’s my definition of success.”
⚡️ Rapid-Fire Highlights
Law School: University of Iowa
Undergrad: Iowa State University
Favorite Show: Seinfeld
Bucket List Trip: Italy — Rome, Florence & Venice with his wife
Best Gift: A heartfelt two-page text from his daughter on his birthday
Recent Trip: Ireland, for the Iowa State vs. Kansas State football game 🇮🇪
Favorite Quote: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
Hidden Talent: Scuba certified — last dove Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Faith & Service: Active in his Catholic parish; performs in annual church musicals raising $150,000+ for charity
Family: 7 children, 5 grandkids (“grandies”), and 2 cats 🐈‍⬛
🎧 Listen & Subscribe
➡️ The Pivot Playbook with Salene Mazur KraemerFresh starts. Turnarounds. Real-life resilience.🌐 www.MazurKraemer.com
#ThePivotPlaybook #MazurKraemer #Podcast #BankruptcyLaw #FaithAndBusiness #Leadership #Resilience #FreshStarts #Entrepreneurship #LawyersOfLinkedIn #BoardCertified #FarmBankruptcy #PivotStories
 

Grace, Grit & Growth: How Attorney Sari Placona Found Her Power — in Law and in Life

In this inspiring episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer talks with Sari Placona, partner at McManimon, Scotland & Baumann, LLC in New Jersey, about what it means to rebuild — in business, in friendship, and in yourself.
A bankruptcy and restructuring attorney, IWIRC Rising Star, and fitness powerhouse, Sari shares how walking away from unhealthy friendships, rediscovering strength through fitness, and finding purpose in helping distressed businesses have shaped both her professional and personal pivots.
It’s a candid, empowering conversation about authenticity, boundaries, and the courage to start again.
🧾 Show Notes
Guest: Sari PlaconaFirm: McManimon, Scotland & Baumann, LLC (Roseland, NJ). https://www.msbnj.com/ Role: Bankruptcy & Restructuring Attorney — Chapter 11s, litigation, and assignments for the benefit of creditorsJurisdictions: New Jersey & New YorkRecognition: IWIRC Rising Star Award (2022); Co-Chair, IWIRC New Jersey NetworkLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sari-b-placona-51849147/ 
🔹 Highlights
Career evolution from paralegal to partner, discovering a passion for restructuring law
Leadership in IWIRC New Jersey and the impact of women supporting women
Winning the IWIRC Rising Star Award and mentoring other young professionals
Experience in complex Chapter 11 cases — including Rite Aid, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Mercedes-Benz
How bankruptcy can be a path to renewal, not failure
The bold personal pivot of leaving a toxic friendship group and choosing peace
Sari’s fitness and mindset transformation, building confidence through discipline
💡 Key Takeaways
Pivoting isn’t failure — it’s freedom. Sometimes leaving what no longer serves you opens new doors.
Act early. In both business and personal life, clarity comes through decisive action.
Strength is contagious. When you show up strong, others do too.
Relationships matter. Nurture the ones that support your growth and peace.
💬 Notable Quotes
“You should fill the cups that fill your cup.”“When I feel strong physically, I feel like I can take on whatever the day serves me.”“Be a good person — it’s really that simple.”“You can’t always control the storm, but you can pivot your direction.”
⚡️ Rapid-Fire Highlights
Law School: Rutgers Law
Undergrad: Rutgers University (New Brunswick — Communications & Sociology)
Favorite Shows: The Morning Show (Apple TV), Love Is Blind (Netflix)
Vacation: Greece with family
Best Gift: Whitney Houston memorabilia (and her parents’ unwavering support)
Music: Currently on a Taylor Swift kick 🎶
Workout Routine: HIIT and Warrior Sculpt Yoga
Favorite City: Chicago
Fun Fact: Has a twin brother, Scott, in sports marketing
Pet: None (but grew up with a family dog)
🎧 Listen & Subscribe
➡️ The Pivot Playbook with Salene Mazur KraemerFresh starts. Turnarounds. Real-life resilience.🌐 www.MazurKraemer.com
#ThePivotPlaybook #MazurKraemer #Podcast #IWIRC #WomenInLaw #Resilience #Leadership #FreshStarts #Reinvention #TurnaroundStories #LawyersOfLinkedIn
 
 
 

Tomatoes, Creditors & The Bermuda Triangle: Wisconsin Creditors' Rights Attorney Sam Wisotzkey

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer sits down with Sam Wisotzkey, head of the Business & Financial Services Group at Kohner, Mann & Kailas, S.C. in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  https://kmksc.com/samuel-c-wisotzkey/ Sam shares his journey from Arizona’s desert to the Great Lakes, how he became one of the Midwest’s top creditors’ rights and business bankruptcy attorneys, and why timing, preparation, and relationships matter most in complex financial workouts.
From tomato contracts in California to his great-uncle’s mysterious Bermuda Triangle disappearance, this conversation blends insight, history, and humanity — reminding us that even in law and finance, stories connect us all.
🧾 Show Notes
Guest: Sam WisotzkeyFirm: Kohner, Mann & Kailas, S.C. (Milwaukee, WI)Role: Shareholder; Chair of Business & Financial Services Practice GroupSpecialty: Creditors’ Rights, Business Bankruptcy, Commercial LitigationCertification: Board Certified – Business Bankruptcy Law (American Board of Certification)
🔹 Highlights
Sam’s career path from Phoenix to Milwaukee, and how geography shaped his practice
His 21-year tenure with the firm and leadership in business bankruptcy and creditors’ rights
The story behind a national client and a tomato supply chain — and how quick thinking in a Chapter 11 saved operations nationwide
Board service on the American Board of Certification, including work on the Faculty Committee grading exams and developing new content
The importance of acting early in distressed situations — and how “strike while the iron is hot” applies in collections and bankruptcy
His deep ties to Pittsburgh, where he grew up in the North Hills before heading west
A fascinating family mystery: his great-uncle’s disappearance on the USS Cyclops in the Bermuda Triangle
Reflections on hiking, family, and storytelling as balancing forces in a demanding practice
💡 Key Takeaways
For Creditors: Engage experienced counsel early — delays reduce leverage and recovery.
For Professionals: Certification adds credibility and connects you to a national network of experts.
For Everyone: Approach challenges with curiosity and calm — “hindsight makes even chaos meaningful.”
💬 Notable Quotes
“Things don’t get better with time. Strike while the iron is hot.”“The Bermuda Triangle may be unsolved — but there’s nothing mysterious about the value of acting early.”“Relationships, integrity, and timing: that’s the real formula for a successful bankruptcy practice.”
⚡️ Rapid Fire Highlights
Law School: University of Michigan (Go Blue!)
Favorite Show: The Bear (Hulu)
Movie: The Shawshank Redemption
Vacations: Grand Canyon hike to Phantom Ranch; Glacier National Park
Dessert: Chocolate mousse or any chocolate cake
Best Gift: His two daughters
Music: 80s & 90s playlists
Podcast: Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me! (NPR)
Favorite City: Amsterdam (and, of course, Milwaukee!)
🎧 Listen & Subscribe
➡️ The Pivot Playbook hosted by Salene Mazur KraemerFresh starts. Turnarounds. Reinvention in business and life.📍 www.MazurKraemer.com#ThePivotPlaybook #MazurKraemer #Podcast #BusinessLaw #BankruptcyLaw #CreditorsRights #Leadership #Resilience #TurnaroundStories #IWIRC #ABCBoardCertified

Student Loans, Storytelling and Second Chances: NC Bankruptcy Attorney Ed Boltz

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, Salene talks with Ed Bolts, a North Carolina–based consumer bankruptcy attorney who has helped thousands of families reset through Chapter 7 and 13. Ed shares why seeing a lawyer sooner changes everything, how he helped shape the 2022 DOJ/Department of Education student-loan discharge guidelines, and why boundaries and compassion both matter when clients are under stress. They also swap stories about travel, family, and the power of storytelling in advocacy.
🧾 Show Notes
Guest: Ed BoltzLocation: Durham, North Carolina (statewide practice)Role: Consumer bankruptcy attorney (debtors in Ch. 7 & 13); large NC consumer firm (~12 lawyers, ~70 staff)Credentials & Service:
Board Certified bankruptcy specialist since 2004 (legacy; transitioned to ABC in 2007)
ABC Board member; Standards/Recertification committee experience
Student-loan expertise: Contributed to DOJ/Dept. of Education adversary-proceeding guidelines (2022); alt. member, DOE negotiating rulemaking committee
Active with NACBA and related consumer practice groups
What we cover
Ed’s path from Michigan → North Carolina and into consumer bankruptcy (no classes in law school—learned by doing!)
Running a high-volume consumer practice: why paralegal ops matter and how the work is equal parts law + social work
Student loans in/around bankruptcy: how the 2022 DOJ/DOE guidance opened doors, and coordinating non-BK and BK options
Boundaries & burnout: being compassionate without carrying every client’s entire life home
The stigma of bankruptcy and why clients should talk to counsel earlier (before making avoidable mistakes)
A favorite moment: a car-wash selfie with a young man whose family kept their home through a Chapter 13—the “why” behind the work
Storytelling, community, and purpose: Ed’s local storytelling nonprofit (The Monti) and why narrative skills make better lawyers
Key takeaways
Don’t wait. Most consumers would be better off meeting a bankruptcy lawyer sooner, not after doing “fixes” that cause clawbacks/delays.
Student-loan relief is evolving. With the 2022 DOJ/DOE framework, undue hardship cases are more navigable—if you know the playbook.
Compassion + boundaries = sustainable advocacy. Hold empathy, set limits, serve the next client well.
Consumer practice is retail law: systems, staffing, and consistent communication are everything.
Notable quotes
“Most people would have been better off if they came to see a bankruptcy attorney sooner.”“Our clients can drain the emotional well—compassion needs boundaries so we can help the next person.”“I love finding a Chapter 11 idea and translating it to Chapter 13—if it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander.”“Bankruptcy law can feel like a magic wand when used well—homes and futures get saved.”
Rapid-fire highlights
Law school: George Washington (GW Law)
Undergrad: Washington University in St. Louis
Streaming: Ozark; currently Hightown
Movies: The Lord of the Rings (also loves classic comedy Blazing Saddles)
Recent trip: A week in Barcelona with his daughters
Dessert: Anything chocolate + peanut butter; signature strawberry-rhubarb pie
Best gift: Great-grandfather’s pocket watch (family heirloom)
Last song: “I’m Broke” — Black Joe Lewis & the Honeybears
Podcast pick: Swindled
Pet: “Nessie,” a sweet Carolina dog
Favorite city visited: Istanbul
Guest links
The Monti (storytelling nonprofit): https://www.themonti.org/storytellers/ed-boltz 
Ed’s professional profile/firm: https://www.billsbills.com/attorneys/edward-c-boltz 
Host: Salene Mazur KraemerPodcast: The Pivot Playbook — Fresh starts, turnarounds, and real-life resilience.CTA: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Share this episode with a friend who’s navigating debt or a big life pivot.

The Pivot Playbook- Trailer

In this trailer episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer introduces her vision for a show that celebrates second chances, fresh starts, and the power of the pivot. Drawing on her 25 years in business law and her passion for storytelling, Salene explores how professionals, entrepreneurs, and dreamers navigate change with integrity and courage.✨ Subscribe for stories of turnaround, purpose, and personal growth — because your next chapter is waiting to be written.

Sewing Threads of Connection: Minneapolis’ Ella Vincent on Mentorship and Meaning in Law"

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer interviews Ella Vincent, Senior Specialist Legal Editor for Practical Law, Thomson Reuters, and Chair of the Young and New Lawyer Subcommittee of the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee (BBC).
Ella shares her inspiring journey from private practice in Seattle to her “dream job” writing and maintaining national bankruptcy and restructuring content. She opens up about her passion for mentorship, her leadership in launching the BBC Match Portal—a first-of-its-kind platform connecting lawyers to writing and speaking opportunities—and her mission to make the bankruptcy bar more welcoming to new practitioners.
From municipal healthcare restructurings to balancing work and motherhood in Minneapolis, Ella reminds us that bankruptcy practice is about more than numbers — it’s about people, community, and service.
👩‍💼 Guest:
Ella VincentSenior Specialist Legal Editor, Bankruptcy & RestructuringPractical Law | Thomson ReutersBased in: Minneapolis, Minnesota
🌐 Professional Affiliations:
American Bar Association – Business Bankruptcy Committee (BBC)
Chair, Young and New Lawyer Subcommittee
Coordinator, BBC Match Portal Initiative
🗒️ Topics Covered:
Transitioning from private practice to legal publishing
Developing bankruptcy and restructuring content for Thomson Reuters Practical Law
The launch and purpose of the ABA BBC’s Match Portal
Mentorship, connection, and growth for young attorneys
The real-life impact of restructuring work — from hospitals to communities
Work-life balance, motherhood, and rediscovering creative hobbies like baking and sewing
💬 Key Takeaways:
“Bankruptcy is not a theoretical practice — it has real-life implications for people and communities.”
“Getting involved early gives clients more options — and better outcomes.”
“Mentorship opens doors and makes our profession stronger.”
🌟 Personal Highlights:
First job: fishmonger — “It taught me customer service, preparation, and knowing your product.”
Favorite dessert: anything chocolate — from cookies to flourless torts.
Favorite vacation: snorkeling with sea turtles in Kona, Hawaii.
Annual tradition: the Minnesota State Fair with her husband and young son.
🔗 Connect with Ella:
LinkedIn – Ella VincentThomson Reuters Practical LawABA Business Bankruptcy Committee
🎧 Host:
Salene Mazur Kraemer, Esq.The Pivot Playbook — Rescuing Business, Redesigning Midlifewww.MazurKraemer.com
 

From Farms to Hospitals: Saving Businesses and Communities with NC Restructuring Attorney Jennifer Lyday (VIDEO Version)

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer sits down with Jennifer Lyday, a seasoned Chapter 11 practitioner and partner at Waldrip, Wall, Babcock & Bailey in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. They are both West Virginia natives and adoptive moms and members of IWIRC- International Women's Insolvency and Restructuring Confederation. From helping farmers preserve generational land to steering hospitals through financial distress, Jennifer brings humanity and heart to the practice of insolvency law.
They discuss her journey from Spanish major to bankruptcy attorney, her deep ties to IWIRC’s Carolinas Network, and how she balances professional purpose with her roles as a mom of three and an adoption advocate. Jennifer shares wisdom on why clients should “never wait too long” to seek help, and the profound satisfaction that comes from saving not just a business — but a community.
Guest: Jennifer LydayFirm: Waldrip, Wall, Babcock & Bailey, Winston-Salem, NCWebsite: https://www.waldrepwall.com/Professional Affiliations: International Women’s Insolvency and Reorganization Confederation (Vice Director of Member Services, 2024 Board of Directors; Board Member and Former Communications Chair of the Carolinas Network)
Topics Covered:
Jennifer’s path from Wake Forest to William & Mary Law, and how a mentor sparked her passion for bankruptcy law.
The power of female representation in federal practice areas and the supportive network of IWIRC.
Her love for Chapter 12 farming clients and rural hospitals, where legal work truly transforms lives.
Insights for business owners in distress — and what not to do when facing financial trouble.
Adoption and motherhood: building family through love, faith, and openness.
Her favorite things — from hiking the Camino de Santiago to Christian metal playlists.
Key Takeaways:
“You can’t come to an insolvency practitioner too soon.”
“Integrity and gratitude make the best clients.”
“When you stabilize a hospital, you stabilize a community.”
Connect with Jennifer:
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-lyday-5509251b/
Host: Salene Mazur KraemerPodcast: The Pivot Playbook — Rescuing Business, Redesigning Midlife